(excerpt from live radio interview, hosted by Lauren Corman and Rob Moore)

Lauren: Hello and welcome back to Animal Voices. You're listening to CIUT 89.5 FM. Today on Animal Voices we spoke with Kerry Lea at the top of the hour; she's with "Veg-ucation" and Acting Creatively. ActingCreatively.com is her website, and now we're going to be speaking with Johnathan Skinner, and as Rob said he's a superstar... he is the founder and inspiration behind Veggie Games Incorporated, and he's the creator of a pretty cool video game called Steer Madness so, Johnathan we're really happy to have you on the show today.

Johnathan: Thanks.

Lauren: So maybe you can start off by telling us about Veggie Games Inc. and then giving us a description of Steer Madness.

Johnathan: Well, Veggie Games is a small game development company, our only product right now is Steer Madness where you play as a steer, going around a city trying to save all the animals. It's all based off of animal rights activism. There's all sorts of stuff you can do to go on all these missions and cause some havoc and save all the animals.

Lauren: (laugh)

Rob: So did Steer Madness come first or did Veggie Games?

Johnathan: Steer Madness came first. I came up with the concept about 2 years ago while I was doing other jobs and eventually decided to do it on my own and get the game done, and set up the company.

Lauren: Is there anything else like Steer Madness out there?

Johnathan: Not really. It's quite unique. There are a couple games that are somewhat animal rights related, not directly. There's one called Deer Avenger where you go around as a deer and shoot down all the hunters. And there's another more recent game called Whiplash where the whole objective is to trash an animal testing lab, but their message is kind of twisted because you play a rabbit and a weasel, and the rabbit is the weapon. So, I don't know, it's kind of strange because you're being cruel to a rabbit in order to save the other animals.

Lauren: Okay, so tell us more about Steer Madness then. You said, "go and wreak havoc", what does this look like exactly, if someone were to sit down and boot up the game, what would they expect when they're looking at the game?

Johnathan: To begin with, the game is very story driven, so you get very attached to the characters, kind of going through the lives of Bryce the Steer and the other characters within the game as they're talking about activism. Bryce is very new to activism himself -- he just escaped from the slaughterhouse, so he himself is new to the world, he's just discovering what activism is all about.

Lauren: Really? (laugh)

Johnathan: So the player along with him learns all these things and then you get these opportunities to go and save animals and other animal rights related things. You get on a bike...

Lauren: Yeah?

Johnathan: You ride around a big city and, it's completely non-violent.

Lauren: Yeah...

Johnathan: So when I say wreak havoc is kind of...

Lauren: Peaceful havok!

Rob: (laugh)

Johnathan: Right.

Lauren: Yeah. (laugh)

Rob: So you get to drive a tofu truck through downtown and things like that.

Johnathan: Yeah, for the most part you're riding bikes, it's very environmentally friendly...

Lauren: (laugh)

Rob: That's good! (laugh)

Johnathan: There's a couple other vehicles... you can't exactly transport a whole lot of tofu and soymilk on a bike so, you end up borrowing the truck.

Rob: So is this game, was it an extension of your animal activism?

Johnathan: In a sense. Basically, I took all the things that I really wanted to do that I couldn't do in real life and made it into a game.

Rob: That's a really great venue to channel your energy I think actually. You have this dream and then make it into a video game.

Lauren: Are you happy with how it turned out, do you wish that you've done things differently or are you still tweaking it or is it totally the way that you want it now?

Johnathan: I think it's turned out quite well. We're still in development so there are a few things that aren't finalized, which should be ready by the time it goes into stores. But, yeah it's very cool. Lauren: I'm curious about the obsticles that Bryce, the steer, on his bike, would face to wreak havok... you know in other video games you're crossing moats or you have to solve a riddle to get to a gate or unlock a special key to get to somewhere else, or your being shot at by somebody and thats the obsticle... what are the obsticles that Bryce, our dear friend Bryce is facing as he tries to liberate these animals and bring down the animal exploitation industries?

Johnathan: Well they are a lot more direct, depending on the mission you'll be doing and, for example, saving rabbits from a cosmetics lab. So in that mission what you would do is you have to find a way into the cosmetics lab, and it's a very realistic city environment that he's in so there's actual security and all that sort of thing. You've got to find a way around the security and then get into the lab and then you have a certain amount of time that you can be in there before you get caught before the alarm goes off or something, where you just have to go and find all the rabbits and get them out of there.

Lauren: And do they bring the rabbits to a sanctuary or is that the end of the mission?

Johnathan: Well, the cosmetics lab is convieniently placed right beside a natural park.

Lauren: (laugh)

Rob: (laugh)

Lauren: Yay!

Rob: Right on!

Johnathan: The rabbits just kind of hop away.

Rob: So what ages are you targeting with this game?

Johnathan: It's suitable for all ages, but I think the most appeal is going to be for people in their teens and twenties.

Rob: And it's going to be released I think on December 1st this year?

Johnathan: Yeah, that's the retail date.

Rob: And I know that you pitched it in L.A. earlier this year. What was the response to that?

Johnathan: Everyone thought it was a really great game, but because they... in L.A. the trade show there is a video game trade show called E3, and it's a really big-money thing, so all these publishers that would take the game and put it into stores, they don't really like taking original products because they want a garantee that they're going to make money. So they take last year's success, and make it bigger and badder or whatever...

Rob: And you have Quake 4 or something like that.

Johnathan: Yeah exactly. But I did get several good responses, some good feedback and they were requesting that I contact them for a sequel.

Lauren: Hmmm.

Rob: Will this game appeal to... 'cause I know that vegans and vegetarians are going to snap this up, but do you think it will appeal to other non-animal rights people?

Johnathan: Well the response I've gotten has been very good. They just love the originality of it, and it's not every day you get to see a steer riding around on a bike...

Rob: (laugh)

Lauren: (laugh)

Johnathan: And drive around town like a mad cow in a tofu truck...

Lauren: Yeah...

Johnathan: Yeah they just love the originality and the characters are very appealing.

Rob: Yeah I can't wait to play it. It's for PC I think?

Johnathan: For PC and Macintosh.

Rob: And Macintosh.

Lauren: And is there going to be a Linux version?

Johnathan: That's been requested. I'm going to try... I don't know if there will be enough time to put it in the initial release, but soon afterwards.

Lauren: Yeah, I've got a lot of veggie friends who are Linux users, and myself now I'm a Linux user and would love to be able to play the game. It would be awesome if you could do that. (laugh)

Rob: (laugh)

Lauren: I know you've got so much other stuff going on so I'll just put my little request out there.

Rob: Lauren had a good question that she wrote out and she said, "How does the game strike a balance between entertainment and raising awareness about a serious and very sad topic?"

Lauren: (laugh)

Rob: I love the question.

Johnathan: Well every time that something is brough up... Bryce himself is only learning about all these activism issues, so the player learns along with him...

Rob: Hmmm.

Johnathan: But every time you learn about something, you're provided with a way to do something about it. So when you find out about the animals trapped in a lab, you're told, "Hey, let's go free them and make it better." So I think that's kinda the way that it brings it across in a better way.

Lauren: Hmmm.

Rob: Can people pre-order a copy before December?

Johnathan: Yes, we are accepting pre-orders on our website, SteerMadness.com. Those will be sent out in the mail a couple weeks before it arrives in stores.

Lauren: You said, "We are accepting pre-orders," is there other people involved with this project as well?

Johnathan: A couple...

Lauren: Uh huh?

Johnathan: I've done most of everything, but right now there is an artist working full time on the game, and occasionally we have interns that come in and do some additional artwork. Local schools that do intership programs so that they can learn how to do video game and computer related art. So we take some of them in, and they help us and we teach them.

Lauren: Wow. So what's your vision now Johnathan, for you know, where would you like to see Veggie Games Inc. go and what are your ideas, you know in terms of the future?

Johnathan: I've been thinking about doing a sequel or some spin-offs based on certain missions... I may make an entire game based off of that type of thing, or I even have some ideas of taking the game and making it into a movie.

Rob: Oh wow, like a computer animated movie?

Johnathan: I'd like to see it half and half... live action with some computer generated characters...

Rob: Right, right... and I just wanted to repeat what you said earlier, if people pre-order this game they'll get it two weeks before December 1st, around that.

Johnathan: Yeah, around then. It really depends on where they live though because it's getting sent in the mail, but they should get it anywhere within the last week or two of November.

Rob: So it's SteerMadness.com they can order that through.

Johnathan: Yes.

Rob: And what about Veggie Games in general, I read on the site that you really want to create just a line of non-violent games. Why was that important to you?

Johnathan: Mainstream games in general are just very violent in nature, right, and sometimes is just too much, and also just because the whole objective of veganism is to not cause harm to others, whether they're animals or humans, we want, I don't know, we just want a peaceful world, right? So why use violence when you don't have to?

Rob: Yeah, I was speaking with Kerry, the first guest, before about this and she said that that's perfect because "I wanted a non-violent video game for my foster daughter to play". So I think it's going to be really successful. We just have a minute or two left... maybe you could tell us a little about Vegan Voices, the animal advocacy group you founded in Vancouver.

Johnathan: Yes, I started that a few years ago...

Rob: You've just done it all, Johnathan, haven't you?

Johnathan: (laugh)

Rob: (laugh)

Johnathan: It started out just as a small group... just a couple friends who wanted to have some kind of direct action group... or not direct action, sorry... grass roots. We mostly just do leafletting and stuff. And also somewhere vegans can go to be around other vegans and hang out, talk about meat-eaters and our fun experiences with them...

Rob: (laugh)

Lauren: (laugh)

Johnathan: And I couldn't find anything in Vancouver that was quite what I was looking for, so I did it myself.

Rob: That's awesome.

Lauren: Johnathan, we don't have very much time left but I wanted to put another request out there. I haven't played the game yet and I understand that the activists that meet Bryce... back the the Steer Madness game just for a second... is the activist female, that he meets?

Johnathan: Yes.

Lauren: Okay, 'cause I was like, ahhh, it would be so good if we had... the protaganist of a video game is so often not female characters so I was hoping maybe the next spin-off can have a female character be the superhero. That's my request. (laugh)

Rob: You could, you could have Sow Madness.

Lauren: But... (laugh)... but Bryce sounds awesome.

Johnathan: There are two supporting female characters.

Lauren: Okay, awesome, that's great. Johnathan, thanks for all your amazing work, we can't wait to get our hands on the game.

Johnathan: Thank you.

Lauren: And thanks for being on Animal Voices and Rob has one last thing he wants to say.

Rob: I just want to make sure, what's the Vegan Voices website?

Johnathan: It's VeganVoices.org.

Rob: Dot org. SteerMadness.com and VeggieGames.com?

Johnathan: Yes.

Rob: Great. Just so people can get a hold of you.

Lauren: We'll have you back on hopefully when you continue to have new stuff... we look forward to monitoring your progress, so thanks a lot for your work.

Johnathan: Alright, thank you.

Lauren: Thanks! That was Johnathan Skinner with Veggie Games Inc. and Vegan Voices in Vancouver and the creator of Steer Madness.